Sara Ramirez Is in Complete Control

10 Dec 2021

Yahoo Lifestyle

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The And Just Like That star opens up about playing the first nonbinary character in the Sex and the City universe and if they'd return to Grey's Anatomy.

Sara Ramirez has the kind of control over their career that most actors can only dream of. Fresh off a turn as Lady of the Lake in the 2005 Tony Award-winning Broadway musical Spamalot, Ramirez was given carte blanche by ABC to join any show off their roster. Literally, an exec sent over a bunch of DVDs and told them to pick one. “It's unheard of,” Ramirez tells Glamour over Zoom.

From there, Ramirez took a seven-episode arc playing the love interest of Dr. George O'Malley (T.R. Knight) on a little show called Grey's Anatomy and turned it into an 11-season run as the bisexual icon Dr. Callie Torres. The vampy orthopedic surgeon remains the longest-running LGBTQ+ character on TV and changed the course of queer representation in Hollywood forever.

While the Mexican-Irish-American actor did not come out publicly as bisexual until 2016, Ramirez would like to make it very clear who influenced who: “A lot of people misconstrue my coming out publicly as though Callie Torres existed before I knew I was bisexual, which is actually inaccurate,” they said. “To correct that misconception, I will share that I came into my queerness incrementally over time." Ramirez says their most “intense explorations" around their sexual orientation occurred during their time at Julliard in the early '90s.

With the pressures of starring in network television's biggest show, Ramirez wasn't ready to disclose their bi and pan identity. Still, they saw an opportunity with Callie. “As the years went on, I said to [creator Shonda Rhimes], 'I've never seen a bi character played on TV—not in a way that embraces bisexuality.'" At the time, Ramirez says there were talks of another series regular going down a “queer road” but it didn't pan out. “I thought, 'Here's my chance to speak up.' So I did. And Shonda said, 'Okay, let's do it.'"

This was just the first in a series of extremely deliberate and influential career decisions for Ramirez. The latest: Taking on the first nonbinary character in the Sex and the City universe as Che Diaz, a queer stand-up comedian and podcast host working with Carrie Bradshaw (Sarah Jessica Parker) in the HBO Max revival, And Just Like That. Yet another role that was written specifically for Ramirez.

The actor came out as nonbinary amid the pandemic—an aspect of their identity that they tell Glamour has been with them since before they were seven, though they “didn't have the language or the supportive environment” to understand that part of themself. “In me is the capacity to be Girlish boy, Boyish girl, Boyish boy, Girlish girl, All, Neither,” they wrote on Instagram in August 2020.

In the premiere episode of And Just Like That, which dropped on December 9, the “queer, nonbinary, Mexican-Irish diva” described their version of public masturbation as wearing a baseball cap to Yankee Stadium, sipping a beer, and “watching the bros try to figure out what I am.” It seems we've come a long way from SATC's season 3 episode "Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl," in which Carrie Bradshaw confidently describes bisexuality as “a layover on the way to gay town.” It doesn't feel like a stretch to thank Sara Ramirez and Dr. Callie Torres for that.

Below, Glamour spoke to Ramirez about And Just Like That, taking control, and whether or not they'd consider returning to Grey's Anatomy.

You had a large role in shaping Dr. Callie Torres's character arc and sexuality on Grey's Anatomy. Can you tell me more about why that was important to you?

There's this pressure when you're in the public eye to disclose everything about yourself, and I felt immense pressure around coming out publicly, but I wasn't ready. For me, this was kind of the safest way for me to represent.

We enlisted GLAAD as we continued to unfold this storyline in a way that felt like it was honoring the tenderness and vulnerability around a character like Dr. Callie Torres, so a lot of her journey was not like mine. And I was okay with that. The thing I'm most proud of is that we weren't really going for perfection, we were going for progress. Back in 2007 or 2008, that was progress. The context and the culture at that time was very, very different from how it is now. I'm just really glad that we touched on a nerve for people and inspired a lot of bisexual, pansexual, and gay people to understand their own sexual orientations through this particular person's journey.

Look at us now! Grey's Anatomy has introduced its first nonbinary character and you've joined the new chapter of Sex and the City, which has had its fair share of problematic moments in the past, as its first nonbinary character. What made you choose to be a part of this legacy?

Back in the '90s, when I was first starting out in the industry, I watched Sex in the City as a fan and dreamt about guest-starring on it. So when the series ended, I thought, “Well, there goes that dream.” As you can imagine, when Michael Patrick King offered me this role in a Zoom meeting last January, I was elated. I was so excited.

I'm certainly curious about the possibilities for this iteration, and I hear you about episodes that were bi-antagonistic and some episodes that were transphobic. Only time will tell how it will course correct from the original.

What are you most excited for fans to see when it comes to Che Diaz?

Che Diaz isn't here to represent an entire community. The nonbinary community is not a monolith, and I think it's important for people to hear that. Che Diaz is not here for everyone's approval. They are a three-dimensional human being who is complex.

Che is all about speaking their truth, unapologetically, and they inspire some of the other characters to do the same and, in fact, inspire certain characters to question their own internalized oppression. It's been such a joy to come into a universe that I was a fan of before, in an entirely new way, in a way that actually inspires some of the characters to evolve and grow and question themselves. That is very exciting to me.

What are some of the challenges you've faced as you carved out your path in Hollywood?

The biggest challenge has been staying true to myself, while at the same time honoring and respecting the needs of my LGBTQ+ community to ensure that I am being intentional in my privilege. It's a privilege to be able to walk into any Hollywood space and say, “I want this character to be bisexual.” “Okay, we're gonna make her bisexual. Let's do this.” That's a huge responsibility.

For Madam Secretary, it was, “This is what the character is gonna look like, this is their haircut, they're gonna have minimal makeup. They're gonna dress masculine of center, primarily in suits and ties.” And CBS said, “Okay,” and I thought, “Oh, God, okay, here we go.” Now I need to make sure that I am being intentional, that I'm being thoughtful, and that there is care brought into every single scene and word that this person says.

I needed to step up and make sure that I was educating myself as much as possible and enlisting the support of trusted people to support me in speaking up when I felt that the writers room wasn't getting it right.

And now, on …And Just Like That, it is similar in that I feel the responsibility of this representation. I'm not here to be harmful, so how do I implement harm reduction into representation, knowing that visibility is not justice? Also knowing that visibility can spark new conversations that can lead people to open their minds and hearts and actually, possibly maybe learn how to love their own people better and give permission to see themselves and maybe even learn how to love themselves better. That is a lot to think about. And that is a lot to hold, but I have the capacity. So that's part of why I'm doing this.

As an actor, how have you spoken up when you felt the writer's room may not have been getting something right?

Working in Hollywood is all about your relationships. It's about meeting people where they are, and it's about sending that email and speaking up to your showrunner, or maybe you have an advocate in the writer's room. On And Just Like That, Michael Patrick King has been there every step of the way for me. Anytime that I have flagged something as potentially problematic or something that could be harmful and I'm not clear myself—because I can't possibly know all the things—I have asked him to seek out some support for us.

And that has come in the form of nonbinary folks that are in his life, it's come in the form of GLAAD—shout out to Nick Adams—it's come in the form of us talking about our experiences, knowing that we have our own limited capacities, and being willing to acknowledge that vulnerability. It's a very collaborative process because I have reached out and asked for it to be a collaborative process. In fact, that was one of the conditions under which I was willing to take the role.

The role was written for me and Michael Patrick King said, “If you don't take the role, we're going to go in a different direction entirely.” I really took that seriously, which looks like me asking for the support that I need, that I deserve, and that my community deserves.

Speaking of keeping strong relationships in Hollywood, would you consider returning to Grey's Anatomy?

Absolutely. [Laughs] You didn't expect that answer, did ya?

If the stars align in a way that makes it make sense, absolutely. I love my Grey's Anatomy family. I'm so proud of them for introducing trans characters and nonbinary characters. It's a beautiful universe that they've created over there, and I'm so grateful that I got to be a part of it.

I imagine that Callie is in New York. I'm not really sure what else is going on for Dr. Callie Torres, but I'm just as curious as the fans are. I think it would be really exciting to see what Dr. Callie Torres is doing these days. So yeah, I'm definitely open to it. I would love to see it.

And Just Like That airs Thursdays on HBO Max. Emily Tannenbaum is an entertainment editor, critic, and screenwriter living in Los Angeles. Follow her on Twitter.

Originally Appeared on Glamour